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Post by Darth Stateworker on Jul 2, 2012 7:30:55 GMT -5
And Plessy V Ferguson wasn't litigated away in the 1950s-60s? It isn't unprecedented for precedent to be overturned, it's simply a matter of probability that the counterargument can gain traction with the justices in place now versus then. My point is - do we want to rely on the courts? They are more unpredictable than simply keeping Triborough in place. I said about more than a few times we could re-argue the case. I just don't want to bank on the courts doing the right thing, as they often don't.
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Post by NYS Techie on Jul 2, 2012 8:27:10 GMT -5
Yes, but we can cross that bridge when we come to it. They haven't even started attacking Triborough yet. There's no way to know whether the Assembly will risk alienating state workers by pulling such a stunt, anyway.
I think the point we're making is that even if the Assembly DOES attack Triborough,
A) There's no way of knowing whether they'll go after it whole-hog, or just try to limit it to state employees (thus helping municipalities) or just do nothing whatsoever.
B) Even if they DO go after Triborough, the case law still stands, and
C) Even if the case law DIDN'T stand, they STILL couldn't get rid of steps without negotiating with the union, because that would change the terms and conditions of our employment.
Basically, I don't think it's time to worry yet. There's a whole chain of events that has to happen in just the right way for us to get screwed on Triborough and steps. And I don't think our new union management is going to sit still for even ONE of those steps...
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Post by Darth Stateworker on Jul 2, 2012 10:11:16 GMT -5
I think we're on the same page except I'm just more worried about how re-arguing the case would go if it became nessicary to do so.
But you're right that there are a TON of things that would all need to fall into place for that to occur. However, I foresee less resistance from the Assembly over it's passage due to their lack of backbone over Tier VI and the fact that it will be linked to something they want - their pay raises. So I don't have a ton of faith that the Assembly Dems will simply block it and we can sit back and relax. Being reactive instead of being proactive is why we keep losing things - and when I say we, I mean unions in general, not just PEF.
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Post by NYS Techie on Jul 2, 2012 15:06:42 GMT -5
What I'd like to do is roll the dice and go for a law that lets us go on strike!
Can you imagine? WOO HOO!
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Post by Darth Stateworker on Jul 2, 2012 15:36:46 GMT -5
No shit. While ignorant teabaggers love to talk about how much "power" we have, they have no idea. I'd bet that they'd be SCREAMING to bring Triborough back after just one strike.
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Post by NYS Techie on Jul 2, 2012 16:02:41 GMT -5
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Post by Darth Stateworker on Jul 2, 2012 22:11:24 GMT -5
The lockout is BS, but the thing is, they've got to hang tough since the company wants to end their pension plan. I don't get it - ConEd is just like Verizon - very profitable, but yet they "can't afford" pensions. Hogwash.
Of course, ignorant teabagging asshats will simply support the company, regardless of it's financials, because they are willing accessories in the race to the bottom.
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Post by NYS Techie on Jul 2, 2012 23:00:41 GMT -5
Yeah, well, this is a bit different. Con Ed's managers are NOT able to keep their power supply business running. They really stepped on their dicks by locking out their employees... Just wait for the lawsuits when people die from lack of power and it's obvious to EVERYONE that it's the company's fault for doing the lockout!
I mean, the employees OFFERED TO WORK WITHOUT A CONTRACT!!! This is 100% on the company's shoulders! I don't understand how they could have been so stupid as to lock out their employees during what will be a VERY hot, VERY intense week for their power grid!
Some pointy haired boss is getting fired HARD over this, you betcha.
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Post by Darth Stateworker on Jul 5, 2012 17:47:10 GMT -5
I see ConEds management decided to print distorting ads today in NYC area newspapers. Schmucks!
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Post by NYS Techie on Jul 5, 2012 18:53:30 GMT -5
Like that's going to work...
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Post by Darth Stateworker on Jul 5, 2012 19:43:55 GMT -5
Look at our population - sadly, half of them will believe it without even questioning it.
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Post by NYS Techie on Jul 5, 2012 22:04:00 GMT -5
Not in New York City. You've got to be pretty damn smart to get a job that pays the rent down there, and they're well known for their cynicism about advertising (hell, half of them WRITE the advertising, they KNOW what a joke it is).
;D
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Post by uncivilservant on Jul 6, 2012 8:45:21 GMT -5
Actually, no, you don't have to be smart, or connected, you just have to live with half a dozen other people, like a good chunk of the population of NYC, be in rent controlled housing, or be on government support. You make the assumption that this festering cesspit has anything other than the typical makeup of the US population - which is patently false. There are also a lot of poor and smart people as well as rich and dumb people there. New Yorkers are, well, New Yorkers, the same morons who voted cuomo in and still give him high marks because of his lies and despite wasting more money than previous governers while claiming to be saving it.
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Post by NYS Techie on Jul 6, 2012 15:51:09 GMT -5
Sorry, Uncivil, I used to work and live there. You're full of crap, as usual. The number of smart people per capita is higher in New York City than anywhere else I've been except San Francisco (I can't talk about Boston, because I've never been there).
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Post by uncivilservant on Jul 10, 2012 7:36:43 GMT -5
So you knew all 9 million people?
I find your anecdotal assertions less than compelling.
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